Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
I was wondering what the thoughts of the community were on this. When does it make sense to co-locate and when does it make sense to have an in-house DC? What are the deciding factors?
--
Thank you,
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Always colo in my mind. The biggest voip companies do...
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com (wreece79@gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I was wondering what the thoughts of the community were on this. When does it make sense to co-locate and when does it make sense to have an in-house DC? What are the deciding factors?
--
Thank you,
-Wes-
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Wes Reece wrote:
Quote:
I was wondering what the thoughts of the community were on this. When does
it make sense to co-locate and when does it make sense to have an in-house
DC? What are the deciding factors?
I prefer hosting on other people's hardware, and making sure my business
isn't tied down to physical lines. Not only is this cheaper, but it makes
my business more agile, because I can move operations overnight without
any interruption in service.
As for your question, when your monthly colo bill is 20% more than your
in-house estimated costs, and the amount of money you need to spend on
infrastructure is less than 300% of your monthly colo bill, and you have
the cash available to do so, that's when you switch.
eg. Monthly Colo bill $10k/month
In-house est cost $8k/month (or less)
In-house prep/build $30k (or less)
Also, if you have a migrane from dealing with your colo, or you hate them,
or they go down all the time, it's time.
Beckman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy
beckman@angryox.comhttp://www.angryox.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Colo. Forget about in-house - waste of money/time/etc.
--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
From: Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com>
Subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 4:44 PM
I was wondering what the thoughts of the community were on
this. When does
it make sense to co-locate and when does it make sense to
have an in-house
DC? What are the deciding factors?
--
Thank you,
-Wes-
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Colo.
Nitzan Kon wrote:
Quote:
Colo. Forget about in-house - waste of money/time/etc.
--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com>
> Subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 4:44 PM
> I was wondering what the thoughts of the community were on
> this. When does
> it make sense to co-locate and when does it make sense to
> have an in-house
> DC? What are the deciding factors?
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> -Wes-
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
> http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
--
Alex Balashov
Evariste Systems
Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/
Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670
Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671
Mobile : (+1) (678) 237-1775
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Depends on what you need, have, and want.
You can always fiber form inhouse to colo, where you can have major switches
present, you can also do some inhouse, but leave the important stuff in
colo, we prefer different buildings, so that if forces of nature wipe one
out, we got a backup /redundant..
In house is also more problematic as even a big office wont have the SLA's
in place as the big guys have, power, fire, etc
Back in 1999 i was running hosting+billing operations, my floor was right on
top of a bank, that some wanted to break in in the weekend, well they cut
the power + generators, now in our contract/lease, there was no mention of
these kind of things. So we lost a weekend of transactions and learned we
couldn't trust any one point of failure..
Then again , if its all to just run 1 asterisk box... just put in under the
secretary's desk and no one will ever hear about it ;)
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov
Sent: April-07-09 5:35 PM
To: nk3569@yahoo.com; Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Colo.
Nitzan Kon wrote:
Quote:
Colo. Forget about in-house - waste of money/time/etc.
--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com>
> Subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Quote:
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 4:44 PM
> I was wondering what the thoughts of the community were on
> this. When does
> it make sense to co-locate and when does it make sense to
> have an in-house
> DC? What are the deciding factors?
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> -Wes-
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
> http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
--
Alex Balashov
Evariste Systems
Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/
Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670
Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671
Mobile : (+1) (678) 237-1775
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:31 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Examples:
- For some companies the $1,000/sq foot average construction costs
keep the idea of building an in house datacenter off the table.
- For small (100 sq foot) installations it's reasonable to purchase a
medium sized UPS and HVAC for the computer room - the nightmare is
getting a generator installed and a permit for the exhaust and fuel
storage.
- Even installing fiber into your office
(http://www.phyber.com/ip/#ontap) doesn't give you the rapid scale of
being able to order new GigE/10Gig circuits overnight at a colo.
How much would it cost your business per hour of downtime? Could you
survive if you lost service to your building for two days?
For most it is way easier/cheaper to colocate the equipment.
-Max
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
If you are starting out in business colocation is usually the cheapest
option. you won't have to worry about all of the hassle related to running
an actual data center.
There are a lot of colocation providers out there, unfortunately the
various experiences I had only proved that cost is not the best metric for
reliability.
I do however recommend that you have in house technical staff and not to
rely on the staff of whichever colocation center you select. Or at the
very least make sure you work with a dependable contractor that can
respond to emergencies.
If that isn't an option, invest in a lights-out remote management card to
plug your server in (www.ami.com has some ok ones).
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Max Clark wrote:
Quote:
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:27:34 -0700
From: Max Clark <max.clark@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Examples:
- For some companies the $1,000/sq foot average construction costs
keep the idea of building an in house datacenter off the table.
- For small (100 sq foot) installations it's reasonable to purchase a
medium sized UPS and HVAC for the computer room - the nightmare is
getting a generator installed and a permit for the exhaust and fuel
storage.
- Even installing fiber into your office
(http://www.phyber.com/ip/#ontap) doesn't give you the rapid scale of
being able to order new GigE/10Gig circuits overnight at a colo.
How much would it cost your business per hour of downtime? Could you
survive if you lost service to your building for two days?
For most it is way easier/cheaper to colocate the equipment.
-Max
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
It's not that prohibative if you have natural gas lines in the building for
a generator. Fuel storage - No problem, the exhaust is generally considered
clean.
Fiber is not that expensive when you call a tier 2 fiber co like a local
cable company with their own NOC many of them will build to you with little
(shared) cost to none at all just for the opportunity. (used to negotiate
network extention for Cable co in San Diego so I know thins one first hand).
More bandwidth may not be overnight but a couple of days with hot swappable
units is not too far afield
BRIEN
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Bakhos
Sent: April-07-09 7:52 PM
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
If you are starting out in business colocation is usually the cheapest
option. you won't have to worry about all of the hassle related to running
an actual data center.
There are a lot of colocation providers out there, unfortunately the
various experiences I had only proved that cost is not the best metric for
reliability.
I do however recommend that you have in house technical staff and not to
rely on the staff of whichever colocation center you select. Or at the
very least make sure you work with a dependable contractor that can
respond to emergencies.
If that isn't an option, invest in a lights-out remote management card to
plug your server in (www.ami.com has some ok ones).
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Max Clark wrote:
Quote:
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:27:34 -0700
From: Max Clark <max.clark@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Examples:
- For some companies the $1,000/sq foot average construction costs
keep the idea of building an in house datacenter off the table.
- For small (100 sq foot) installations it's reasonable to purchase a
medium sized UPS and HVAC for the computer room - the nightmare is
getting a generator installed and a permit for the exhaust and fuel
storage.
- Even installing fiber into your office
(http://www.phyber.com/ip/#ontap) doesn't give you the rapid scale of
being able to order new GigE/10Gig circuits overnight at a colo.
How much would it cost your business per hour of downtime? Could you
survive if you lost service to your building for two days?
For most it is way easier/cheaper to colocate the equipment.
-Max
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Bakhos
Sent: April-07-09 7:52 PM
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
If you are starting out in business colocation is usually the cheapest
option. you won't have to worry about all of the hassle related to running
an actual data center.
There are a lot of colocation providers out there, unfortunately the
various experiences I had only proved that cost is not the best metric for
reliability.
I do however recommend that you have in house technical staff and not to
rely on the staff of whichever colocation center you select. Or at the
very least make sure you work with a dependable contractor that can
respond to emergencies.
If that isn't an option, invest in a lights-out remote management card to
plug your server in (www.ami.com has some ok ones).
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Max Clark wrote:
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:27:34 -0700
> From: Max Clark <max.clark@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
>
> There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Examples:
>
> - For some companies the $1,000/sq foot average construction costs
> keep the idea of building an in house datacenter off the table.
> - For small (100 sq foot) installations it's reasonable to purchase a
> medium sized UPS and HVAC for the computer room - the nightmare is
> getting a generator installed and a permit for the exhaust and fuel
> storage.
> - Even installing fiber into your office
> (http://www.phyber.com/ip/#ontap) doesn't give you the rapid scale of
> being able to order new GigE/10Gig circuits overnight at a colo.
>
> How much would it cost your business per hour of downtime? Could you
> survive if you lost service to your building for two days?
>
> For most it is way easier/cheaper to colocate the equipment.
>
> -Max
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:03 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Its interesting that most people prefer colo. I dont know why but I'm afraid of trusting other people with my operations or data. The thought of the colo employee, sending out millions of voip calls from my box perhapse. How did you guys over come this fear? or am I just being too paranoid?
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Stephane Bakhos <voip-asterisk@maximumcrm.com (voip-asterisk@maximumcrm.com)> wrote:
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
If you are starting out in business colocation is usually the cheapest
> option. you won't have to worry about all of the hassle related to running
Quote:
an actual data center.
There are a lot of colocation providers out there, unfortunately the
various experiences I had only proved that cost is not the best metric for
> reliability.
Quote:
I do however recommend that you have in house technical staff and not to
rely on the staff of whichever colocation center you select. Or at the
very least make sure you work with a dependable contractor that can
> respond to emergencies.
Quote:
If that isn't an option, invest in a lights-out remote management card to
plug your server in (www.ami.com has some ok ones).
>
Quote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Max Clark wrote:
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:27:34 -0700
> From: Max Clark <max.clark@gmail.com (max.clark@gmail.com)>
> Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com (asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com)>
Quote:
> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com (asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com)>
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Quote:
>
> There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Examples:
>
> - For some companies the $1,000/sq foot average construction costs
>> keep the idea of building an in house datacenter off the table.
Quote:
> - For small (100 sq foot) installations it's reasonable to purchase a
> medium sized UPS and HVAC for the computer room - the nightmare is
>> getting a generator installed and a permit for the exhaust and fuel
Quote:
> storage.
> - Even installing fiber into your office
> (http://www.phyber.com/ip/#ontap) doesn't give you the rapid scale of
>> being able to order new GigE/10Gig circuits overnight at a colo.
Quote:
>
> How much would it cost your business per hour of downtime? Could you
> survive if you lost service to your building for two days?
>>
Quote:
> For most it is way easier/cheaper to colocate the equipment.
>
> -Max
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>>
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:47 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Quote:
Its interesting that most people prefer colo. I dont know why but I'm
afraid of trusting other
Quote:
people with my operations or data. The thought of the colo employee,
sending out millions of
Quote:
voip calls from my box perhapse. How did you guys over come this fear? or
am I just being too
Quote:
paranoid?
I don’t think the colo would be in business very long if they did that or
anything similar. That’s what contracts are for, along with research into
the best places to host in the area you require.
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:55 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Hey this is IP right? The crooks don't have to be physically there to break in... I would worry much more about that
then someone in a data center who is traceable breaking into your server.
Moshe
> Its interesting that most people prefer colo. I dont know why but I'm
afraid of trusting other
> people with my operations or data. The thought of the colo employee,
sending out millions of
> voip calls from my box perhapse. How did you guys over come this fear? or
am I just being too
> paranoid?
I don’t think the colo would be in business very long if they did that or
anything similar. That’s what contracts are for, along with research into
the best places to host in the area you require.
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:13 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Most colo centers have extensive physical security systems, including at
the very least cameras and swipe cards. A few also require fingerprint
and/or palm print for a lot of doors.
Most also will have plenty of employees and management will take a very
dim view of an employee stealing from a customer, and if they are worth
their salt will cooperate with police in any investigation. Imagine if
that kind of news came out for a publicly traded colocation company.
But at the end of the day, you are much more at risks from all of the bots
and hackers out there scanning ip ranges and brute forcing SIP accounts to
try to access a PBX then from the colo employees.
As a side note, don't forget to put in a firewall in front of the remote
access card and only let trusted IPs access them.
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Wes Reece wrote:
Quote:
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 23:59:20 -0400
From: Wes Reece <wreece79@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
Its interesting that most people prefer colo. I dont know why but I'm afraid
of trusting other people with my operations or data. The thought of the colo
employee, sending out millions of voip calls from my box perhapse. How did
you guys over come this fear? or am I just being too paranoid?
> Yes, we use these in our most critical servers.
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, ContactTel Business wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:29:10 -0400
>> From: ContactTel Business <lists@contacttel.com>
> > Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>> To: 'Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion'
>> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
>>
>> Steph, you talking about
>> http://www.ami.com/products/product.cfm?CatID=4&SubID=32&prodid=196 ?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
>> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Stephane
> Bakhos
>> Sent: April-07-09 7:52 PM
>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
>>
>> If you are starting out in business colocation is usually the cheapest
>> option. you won't have to worry about all of the hassle related to
> running
>> an actual data center.
>>
>> There are a lot of colocation providers out there, unfortunately the
>> various experiences I had only proved that cost is not the best metric
> for
>> reliability.
>>
>> I do however recommend that you have in house technical staff and not to
>> rely on the staff of whichever colocation center you select. Or at the
>> very least make sure you work with a dependable contractor that can
>> respond to emergencies.
>>
>> If that isn't an option, invest in a lights-out remote management card to
>> plug your server in (www.ami.com has some ok ones).
>>
>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Max Clark wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:27:34 -0700
>>> From: Max Clark <max.clark@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>>> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>>> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] OT: Co-location vs Build Out Insight
>>>
>>> There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Examples:
>>>
>>> - For some companies the $1,000/sq foot average construction costs
>>> keep the idea of building an in house datacenter off the table.
>>> - For small (100 sq foot) installations it's reasonable to purchase a
>>> medium sized UPS and HVAC for the computer room - the nightmare is
>>> getting a generator installed and a permit for the exhaust and fuel
>>> storage.
>>> - Even installing fiber into your office
>>> (http://www.phyber.com/ip/#ontap) doesn't give you the rapid scale of
>>> being able to order new GigE/10Gig circuits overnight at a colo.
>>>
>>> How much would it cost your business per hour of downtime? Could you
>>> survive if you lost service to your building for two days?
>>>
>>> For most it is way easier/cheaper to colocate the equipment.
>>>
>>> -Max
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>>>
>>> asterisk-biz mailing list
>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>>> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>>
>> asterisk-biz mailing list
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>>
>> asterisk-biz mailing list
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>
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